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canada goose clearance Eric MacDonald on the historicity of Jesus Why Evolution Is True canada goose clearance

Ruse: creationism the fault of Gnu Atheists who don study enoughIf you not reading canada goose outlet boston Eric MacDonald website, Choice in Dying, you should. I think a lot of people may be canada goose outlet woodbury dissuaded by the fact that his posts are often long, but I found that they repay careful study. Eric, an ex Anglican priest who started his website as a protest against restrictions on legal euthanasia (he got into trouble for helping his wife die when she was in the last stages of multiple sclerosis), has like me expanded his website into larger issues, especially religion. And canada goose outlet belgium although Eric and I sometimes differ on issues like free will, I admire him immensely.

canada goose uk outlet What is decisive, to my mind, against the existence of a single figure around which the Christian myth crystallised, is the fact that the canada goose outlet eu gospel narratives are so conflicting, especially when it comes to the mythical parts, but the teaching conflicts too, and no one person is plausible as the speaker of all the words uttered by the gospel Jesus. The birth narratives in Matthew and Luke are entirely incompatible, and the resurrection narratives are no better; and in canada goose outlet uk neither case are the disagreements such as might be expected from witnesses whose testimony is not entirely consistent. Perfect consistency almost alwayspointsto canada goose outlet location collusion, but differing about where Jesus wouldand did appear whether in Jerusalem or Galilee is simply toobig ofa mistaketo supportbeliefthat the resurrection canada goose outlet germany narratives are the result ofeyewitness testimony. canada goose uk outlet

canada goose uk black friday Whatmight give historical weight to the narratives is something about which they agree, where agreement is unexpected and unlikely. This may be the case in the birth narratives, present only in Matthew and Luke. The birth narratives in these two gospels conflict at almost every point. The only common features seem to be Nazareth and Bethlehem, though for different reasons. Does thislimitedagreement point to a historical core? Since Bethlehem and Nazareth are used for entirely different reasons in the two gospels, I judge the coincidence to be more likely the result of a canada goose outlet store quebec common myth making activity, in which it was believed, for prophetic reasons, that the messiah should be related to these places; butsince there is no prophetic evidence for the messianic importance of either Bethlehem or Nazareth,the agreement is probably related toa common myth making activity, than it is to the existence of an historical person who was born inBethlehem andgrew up in Nazareth. And whileit is difficult to exclude the strongly Galilean aspects of the story, it should also be remarked that, though Galilee wasa highly urbanised, pagan region, the gospels seem profoundly ignorant of this fact. There is very little sense of geographical place in the gospels, and though some of the parables do evoke familiarity with some features of Judaea, these are incidental features which would have been familiar to most country places in the region birds, lilies, fishing, stony ground, weeds, vineyards, etc. canada goose uk black friday

Canada Goose Coats On Sale As you can see, Eric rejects not only the notion that there was a miracle working, supernatural Jesus (no surprise there: Eric been an atheist for a while), but also that there was a single historical individual canada goose vest outlet around whom the Jesus myth coalesced. He faults Bart Ehrman for dismissing do find it a bit dismaying that Bart Ehrman, who has canada goose clothing uk taken a lead in canada goose outlet uk sale showing the gospel stories to be an unreliable basis upon which the build a faith, should so strongly condemn others who are working the same seam, trying to show that the Christian scriptures as we have them cannot be taken as evidence for the existence of the man described so fulsomely therein. That there never was a man who is plausibly described as the gospels describe Jesus goes, I think, without saying. The stories are obviously heavily worked over pieces of religious fiction, a way of turning defeat into victory. Whether there was an historical person around whom these stories crystallised in the first placeseems to be a question without a reliable answer. However, contrary to Ehrman, I do not think we have sources close to the time of Jesus that can corroborate any parts of the story.. I think it is much more likely that Jesus is a compilation fashioned within exiled messianic communities which had known (and possibly also followed) a number of messianic pretenders, until, after their final canada goose outlet defeat in the Jewish War, by reworking their myths they came to the canada goose outlet phone number “realisation”that their real vindication had already come and they had not recognised it. Canada Goose Coats On Sale

canada goose Eric piece is erudite, and yes, long for a website post, canada goose outlet online uk but well worth reading. If you read Ehrman book yet (I haven do weigh in. canada goose

UPDATE: For a less scholarly (but equally impassioned) critique of Ehrman, regular Ben canada goose outlet locations in toronto Goren has produced a long one, folly, that you canada goose outlet online store can read here.

canada goose store since there is no prophetic evidence for the messianic importance of either Bethlehem or Nazareth I thought that the old prophecy from Isaiah said that a savior would come from the city of David, and that the people at the time identified Bethlehem as the city where David was from. Is that not right? canada goose store

canada goose uk shop To me, that one of the strongest indicators that there was a guy upon whose life these legends were built both Matthew and Luke are trying to address this problem that everyone knew Jesus was from Nazareth but the prophecy says that he supposed to come from Bethlehem. So they both come up with stories to explain away this problem, and the stories are incompatible as well as implausible on their own. canada goose uk shop

Canada Goose online that’s one of the strongest indicators that there was a guy upon whose life these legends were built both Matthew and Luke are trying to address this problem that everyone knew Jesus was from Nazareth but the prophecy says that he’s supposed to come from Bethlehem. So they both come up with stories to explain away this problem, and the stories are incompatible as well as implausible on their own. Canada Goose online

canada goose black friday sale That really doesn make sense. canada goose outlet in usa If Jesus was a real person and they knew where he was from, then making up a fake story about his birth would be an obvious fabrication to everyone hearing it or reading it. canada goose black friday sale

buy canada goose jacket [quote]but since there is no prophetic evidence for the messianic importance of either Bethlehem or Nazareth, the agreement is probably related to a common myth making activity [/quote] buy canada goose jacket

is said to have come from Nazareth in multiple sources (Mark, Q, John, L, M). In fact, just the opposite: the early Christians had to explain [i]away[/i] the fact that Jesus came from Nazareth, as seen, for example, in John 1:45 46 and in the birth narratives of Matthew and Luke, which independently of one another try to show that even though Jesus canada goose outlet us came from Nazareth he was born in Bethlehem. And why the concern? Because the Old Testament prophet Micah said the savior would come from Bethlehem, not Nazareth (Micah 5:2). concludes that the probability is high that Jesus came from Nazareth because we have a multiply attested tradition that passes the criteria of dissimilarity.

Canada Goose Outlet I think Ehrman makes a strong case for the existence of a historical Jesus canada goose outlet shop as a Jewish apocalypticist. Canada Goose Outlet

canada goose coats on sale The fact remains that an number of New Testament scholars supporting the four source hypothesis is still not evidence for it. Nor is the current popularity of the hypothesis an excuse to just flat out claim that the Q source placed Jesus in Nazareth. canada goose coats on sale

canada goose clearance sale The argument is what, because canada goose premium outlet a lot canada goose outlet ontario of people think there was a Q source there probably was, and since there probably was it could have placed Jesus in Nazareth, and since it could have then that would sorta makes more sense if he was a real person ergo Jesus? canada goose clearance sale

That is not what I would call a skeptical approach to the question.

Skeptics look at the methodology of Biblical historians and say “that’s epistemologically ridiculous, that nothing like evidence, what is this rubbish?” Biblical historians then get huffy and say that they use the methods of history and canada goose factory outlet toronto location if you don’t like these methods, you canada goose outlet london must be a pseudohistorical crank.

uk canada goose outlet Except biblical history does not use the metholodogy used by the rest of history. Richard Carrier has investigated this closely and spends large chunks of Proving History on this precise point. He researched the methods of Jesus studies in detail, and summarises his conclusions: uk canada goose outlet

Canada Goose Online “Then canada goose outlet in chicago I discovered that the field of New Testament studies was so monumentally fucked the task wasn’t as straightforward as I had hoped. Very basic things that all scholars pretend have been resolved (producing standard answers constantly repeated as ‘the consensus’ when really it’s just everyone citing each other like robbing Peter to pay Paul), really haven’t been, like when the New Testament books were written Canada Goose Online

uk canada goose ” because the biggest thing I discovered is that every expert who is a specialist in methodology has concluded, one and all, that the methods now used in Jesus studies are also totally fucked ” uk canada goose

That is: when canada goose outlet kokemuksia Biblical historians appeal to “you’re throwing all of history under the bus”, this is false. They are, in fact, in the opinion of actual experts on non Biblical ancient history, the pseudohistorical cranks, attempting to dress themselves in the colour of proper historical practice.

canadian goose jacket They sincerely believe that they were taught canada goose discount uk the methods of legitimate canada goose outlet winnipeg history, and their lecturers were told the same in turn. But they really weren and that why skeptics faced with their idea of what constitutes evidence have a hard time taking them seriously. canadian goose jacket

If someone is it, problems of the observation that there was a lot of dependent copying going on (see Carr reply to your original comment), it seems to be you. It seems to be the case however you parse sources.

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